BillO

Tell me about the torque limiter

73 posts in this topic

The 2004 and 2005 R's 5 speed GT automatic are torque limited to ensure long term reliability. Overall the torque is limited to a maximum of 258 ft.lbs vs. 295 ft.lbs for the 6 speed manual. In addition to the maximum torque limit, 1st gear is limited to ~200 ft.lbs and 2nd gear to ~220 ft.lbs. The torque is controlled by limiting the amount of boost from the engine by the ECU.

Doug H

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The 2004 and 2005 R's 5 speed GT automatic are torque limited to ensure long term reliability. Overall the torque is limited to a maximum of 258 ft.lbs vs. 295 ft.lbs for the 6 speed manual. In addition to the maximum torque limit, 1st gear is limited to ~200 ft.lbs and 2nd gear to ~220 ft.lbs. The torque is controlled by limiting the amount of boost from the engine by the ECU.

Doug H

That's so very sad. I guess the manual doesn't have any such issues? I'm not telling my wife that. I don't guess there's a software way to make that go away, huh? Oh well, if I wanted a race car, it probably wouldn't be in a station wagon format anyway. :)

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That's so very sad. I guess the manual doesn't have any such issues? I'm not telling my wife that. I don't guess there's a software way to make that go away, huh? Oh well, if I wanted a race car, it probably wouldn't be in a station wagon format anyway. :)

IPD sells a ECU upgrade that removes the 1st and 2nd gear torque limits. It is by special request and requires you to sign a waiver releasing them of possible transmission damage. To the best of my knowledge those who have purchased this upgrade have not had any reliability problems with their transmission and have been extremely happy with the results. What the long term reliability impacts are I do not know.

Doug H

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That rev limit can go away with an aftermarket ECU tune . . . but your drivetrain warranty coverage would vanish at the same time.

On the plus side, your automatic has the advantage of allowing you to keep the turbo boost up by simply keeping your right foot firmly planted on the accelerator. Those of us with manual transmissions need to pay attention & not let the revs fall too much when changing gears, otherwise the boost drops at every shift.

- Mark

edit: the V70R meister types faster than I do!

Edited by geoguy

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The 2004 and 2005 R's 5 speed GT automatic are torque limited to ensure long term reliability. Overall the torque is limited to a maximum of 258 ft.lbs vs. 295 ft.lbs for the 6 speed manual. In addition to the maximum torque limit, 1st gear is limited to ~200 ft.lbs and 2nd gear to ~220 ft.lbs. The torque is controlled by limiting the amount of boost from the engine by the ECU.

Doug H

It should be noted that the 2006 and 2007 Rs with the 6 speed automatic do not have a limiter according to Volvo. The 0-60 times are certainly better with the 6 speed, but the performance difference between the auto 6 speed and the manual 6 speed still leave many to believe that there is some sort of limit going on in the early gears, but i haven't seen any particular numbers on that.

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Those of us with manual transmissions need to pay attention & not let the revs fall too much when changing gears, otherwise the boost drops at every shift.

Well, I can definitively say I have never had any problems with that. I just hope the driveline can hold up to my speed shifting...

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Oh well, if I wanted a race car, it probably wouldn't be in a station wagon format anyway. :)

No R is a race car. But let's just say everyone here who owns one could have simply picked up a Buick Roadmaster wagon if they only wanted haulability in the cargo sense. ;)

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Doug or Alex,

Do you know if you will get any reliable information on the GT torque limiters for the 2006/2007 models? If the 0-60 times are Mid 5s for MT and high 6s for GT, I would like to know what is causing it. Not going to change much for me at this time, but nice to know for everyone.

Thanks,

Guy

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Doug or Alex,

Do you know if you will get any reliable information on the GT torque limiters for the 2006/2007 models? If the 0-60 times are Mid 5s for MT and high 6s for GT, I would like to know what is causing it. Not going to change much for me at this time, but nice to know for everyone.

Thanks,

Guy

None reliable only rumors based on trying to justify why the the 6 speed automatic is still almost a 1.0 second slower 0-60 than the manual.

Doug H

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None reliable only rumors based on trying to justify why the the 6 speed automatic is still almost a 1.0 second slower 0-60 than the manual.

Doug H

Ditto. Personally, I'd chalk that up to the fact that it's not exactly a performance automatic, but the rumors still fly.

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None reliable only rumors based on trying to justify why the the 6 speed automatic is still almost a 1.0 second slower 0-60 than the manual.

Doug H

Great new pic Doug !

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None reliable only rumors based on trying to justify why the the 6 speed automatic is still almost a 1.0 second slower 0-60 than the manual.

Doug H

When I was at the Factory last month, I asked the question on the torque limit for 06 / 07 GTs, they indicated that it was removed when they installed the new 6 speed auto.

With the difference being less than a second, I think you could almost loose that much time at initial take off not being able to rev and launch with the clutch. The other thing to remember is that the gearing is slightly lower in the Manual cars, our test in 6th gear proved 300 rpm higher on the manual trans for the same speed, this might give the manual a little edge as well.

FP

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When I was at the Factory last month, I asked the question on the torque limit for 06 / 07 GTs, they indicated that it was removed when they installed the new 6 speed auto.

With the difference being less than a second, I think you could almost loose that much time at initial take off not being able to rev and launch with the clutch. The other thing to remember is that the gearing is slightly lower in the Manual cars, our test in 6th gear proved 300 rpm higher on the manual trans for the same speed, this might give the manual a little edge as well.

FP

It is true that the overall torque limit was removed and is now 295 ft.lbs like the manual. However, did you specifically ask if there is any reduction in 1st gear?

Doug H

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It is true that the overall torque limit was removed and is now 295 ft.lbs like the manual. However, did you specifically ask if there is any reduction in 1st gear?

Doug H

I would think that someone at IPD, BSR or the other tuning companies might have some insight on this, I am somewhat suprised that I have not seen anything concrete on swedespeed from them.

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I am just curious on both MT and AT gear ratios, are they the same?

Does AT needs to shift into 3rd to reach 60mph?

If AT needs to shift into 3rd gear to 60mph, that will explain why it takes one second more for 0-60mph.

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I'm going to put a link to this topic in swedespeed. With their higher traffic, maybe one of the IPD reps will have an answer.

The gear ratios and ability to launch seem like 2 pretty good posibilities for the difference.

Guy

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I believe your facts are in err. A 2006 V70-R GT properly driven can yield lower results. -mk

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/index.cfm?...geID=1400527392

I take it you're on the left at 5.951 seconds? The claim by Volvo is that the 6 speed manual can achieve 5.6 second times. (of course that's just a claim)

What's your start method? Do you build up pressure in the torque converter before you release?

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Very interesting! The 6 speed auto isn't all that bad in that case.

Do you know if you hit 60MPH in 2nd gear or 3rd?

And, what are your 0-60 times like if you just floor it from idle and let her rip?

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It is true that the overall torque limit was removed and is now 295 ft.lbs like the manual. However, did you specifically ask if there is any reduction in 1st gear?

Doug H

Doug,

No I didnt ask specifically about First gear, I just asked generically about the torque limiter that I had read about, and the reply was that with the 6 speed auto they no longer had to limit the torque.

Im sure its possible that there is a limit on first to prevent someone from doing something crazy and grenading the tranny...

FP

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Im sure its possible that there is a limit on first to prevent someone from doing something crazy and grenading the tranny...

With the times PM is getting in his 06 R with the GT, I'd have to say there can't be a limit on first, if there was, there is no way he'd be getting 5.95 sec 0-60 times. That's a penalty of less than .4 sec from the best manual times (professional driver) and his time in the auto, understandable when you consider the greater loss inherent in the auto.

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"Chasing tire pressure V. track temp is a bit daunting. I have discovered that less than 32# is unhelpful and actually brought times up. My best times came at 36#. I had usually run 40# all around but recently am trying to undo some of the push and I am currently doing 38# up front and 40# out back, on the street." -mk

If you are racing Solo, it will be a great deal of fun, I have seen some local guys running S60Rs, but we always dialed the front tire pressure for the right amont of tire roll over, and then decreased the rear pressure to dial out the understeer (push) that is inherent on almost all stock suspension design. My car weighs slightly less, and I ran 39 in the front, and between 4-6 psi less in the rear, depending on how much rear action you need. Tight tracks usually less psi to get you more rotation. This has worked very well for us anyway.

Regards,

FP

Edited by FastPhil

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"Chasing tire pressure V. track temp is a bit daunting. I have discovered that less than 32# is unhelpful and actually brought times up. My best times came at 36#. I had usually run 40# all around but recently am trying to undo some of the push and I am currently doing 38# up front and 40# out back, on the street."

If you are racing Solo, it will be a great deal of fun, I have seen some local guys running S60Rs, but we always dialed the front tire pressure for the right amont of tire roll over, and then decreased the rear pressure to dial out the understeer (push) that is inherent on almost all stock suspension design. My car weighs slightly less, and I ran 39 in the front, and between 4-6 psi less in the rear, depending on how much rear action you need. Tight tracks usually less psi to get you more rotation. This has worked very well for us anyway.

Regards,

FP

Sounds like some of you need to ask Santa for the IPD track spec sway bars...

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