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Eutectic Salts ... ?


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#1 Blueleezard

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 02:04 AM

Dear all:

In colder climes we have block heaters and even in-line heaters and coolant circulating pumps to keep engines warmer than if those devices weren't there. We also have battery warmers to keep your friendly electrons from freezing solid in winter (OK, electrons don't really do that, of course, but you get my drift). For many years, while living and working right up by the Yukon border, I used both types of devices installed in many types of previous vehicles, and was very glad I did. My experience says this: if at -45C your garage circuit breaker fails, you don't know about it, and overnight in frigid temperatures your block heater doesn't do the job it was designed to do, the morning startup either doesn't happen or, if your poor car / truck does actually start, the consequences are pure torture. Bad, bad stuff.

Anyway, right now it's Summer -- and what am I doing thinking about block heaters? It's because I have to replace the 110V plugin wire for the block heater on our silver V70R manual -- the plastic cabling was damaged some time ago, and will short out if plugged in.

So, this got me to thinking.

Although I don't remember exactly where, I recall reading -- probably more than 15 years ago -- an article about "new Volvo technology". This was "new" back then, of course. The article was about "eutectic salts" that were being experimentally tested and evaluated as a heat storage & recycling medium. The system was designed to be used as follows: the engine would be brought up to operating temperature, heat would be extracted from the circulating fluids (coolant + oil) and then transferred into a eutectic salt that stored that heat in an insulated container.

Then, overnight (especially in cold climates where this would be particularly useful -- duh!), the engine would begin to cool off. However, the heat stored in the eutectic salts could be "tapped". So, this heat could be used in the equivalent of a "slow burn" process -- with a thermostat and pump, the oil and coolant would be periodically circulated through the insulated eutectic salt reservoir (or vice versa depending on which moving parts would suffer the least wear -- I don't remember which way it went). Without the need for electricity (except for the circulating pump which could be powered with a mini Sterling engine from the same stored heat), this process would keep the engine warmer than it would have been if it was simply permitted to sit overnight and potentially freeze solid.

And as suggested above, in really cold, deep-freeze conditions, this could actually make a lot of sense. So, engine startup would (at least in theory) not be as thermally stressful as it would in "normal" conditions.

Very interesting. I don't remember any findings about how often you could "cycle" the salts this way, or if it was essentially infinite.

Could be that back when this was "new" in Volvoland (and no doubt in other realms, too), the costs for such a system weren't justified -- so, we never saw anything beyond experiments with the engineering. But, things have changed. Has anyone out there on the forum seen anything about his "green" technology lately?

Cheers / Blueleezard B)

#2 Che_Moderator

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 02:47 PM

This will work for short periods of times, but for it to work over night you would need a lot of mass. In short its not going to be practical which is why you probably not heard anything else about this.

#3 DownundeR

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 04:11 PM

View PostBlueleezard, on 21 June 2011 - 02:04 AM, said:

Has anyone out there on the forum seen anything about his "green" technology lately?

Blue,

Phase change materials (PCM) - here's a good three paragraph summary.
They have been around for a while and depending on the actual material and required thermal draw / duration they certainly have uses in other applications.

As Che implies, it's the practical side that let PCMs down.
You need to store and circulate the heating medium & material - that just adds extra cost and complexity.

Trent

#4 pm200054

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Posted 22 June 2011 - 09:20 PM

View PostBlueleezard, on 21 June 2011 - 02:04 AM, said:

Dear all: if at -45C your garage circuit breaker fails, you don't know about it, and overnight in frigid temperatures your block heater doesn't do the job it was designed to do, the morning startup either doesn't happen or, if your poor car / truck does actually start, the consequences are pure torture. Bad, bad stuff.
Cheers / Blueleezard B)
What on earth would posses you to live in a place where that is possible!? -mk

#5 bejinfbk

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 02:46 AM

I would have to agree that the numbers just don't add up for the concept.
Parts, space, weight...I think the laws of thermodynamics work against this idea.
Great concept, but the scale is just outta whack for a passenger car.
( I'm sticking with the bolt-on block heater and some silicone heat pads.)

But there are some folks around here doing some very cool things with
solar, biomass heat sources, thermal mass storage and goethermal.

View Postpm200054, on 22 June 2011 - 09:20 PM, said:

What on earth would posses you to live in a place where that is possible!? -mk
Keeps the riff raff out... :lol: